Madmuzzas Top Force build

[Madmuz77 19]

Well it all started about 4 or 5 months ago, I bought a used Df-01 chassis of thE Bay with the idea of building a Manta Ray runner. It arrived all broken as they do, so I started ordering parts & researching Df-01 upgrades.

I found That the Top Force was top of the Df-01 series apart from the TF Evo & since I wanted a runner not a racer or a shelfer the Evo parts were out of my price range. Not to mention near impossible too find

I decided with a few more parts I could build a Top Force & still fix up the Manta Ray, so the hunt for Top Force parts began.

A few hop up parts led to more impulse buying & I ended up buying every upgrade part I could find

I'm unsure how many parts are original Top Force (I'm sure some are) or Manta Ray or re-re TopForce/MantaRay but as this is to be a runner I wasn't really worried. So I started out with this lot.

Right now on to the build. Started with the ball diffs as the manual states. First thing I notice is that the plastic gear in the Manta Ray ball diff sets is different colour to the Ta-02 gear set.

Unsure if they were just moulded in a different colour or if they changed colour with age, I built 1 using each, I put the Ta-02 one in the rear gearbox with the rest of the plastic gears (no aluminium gear on on the spur)

Originaly I bought a 5.5t brushless for this but I have my doubts on the ball diffs handling that sort of power. What's everyone run in theirs?

I found a SuperstockTZ in my parts box & put that in it for now. Adding a Robinson racing 16t steel pinion, Yeah racing rear gearbox cover & motor mount, Boca bearings(used thoughout) also a prop shaft from Rc damper.

I built the front & rear assemblies following the manual but using Top Force/Thundershot universal shafts all round, Db-01 ball end connectors, C hubs, front & rear knuckles from Rc damper

Then it came to shocks, I bought a set of (short)Hi-caps from you know where. These were the only used parts I used in the build, but they came with the hop up square springs. I stripped them down, checked all the seals, rebuilt & refilled them with Tamiya soft damper oil.

When it came to fitting the rears I found that they were binding on the upper arms. So I reversed the rear knuckles & upper arms this worked fine & left plenty of room for the shocks.

Shocks fitted, build going well so far. Right onto the chassis then.

At this stage I remembered that I had not put the Touque splitter in the front gearbox, so I built it, took off the front gearbox cover & put it in.

Now onto the chassis, built as per manual. I bought a Yeah racing Ta-01 steering set & played around with it a bit but could not get it to fit right, so I decided to go with the stock steeering setup. The rear gearbox was then attached to the chassis.

And the front was attached along with the front bumper. I also attached a Manta Ray rear bumper, I don't know why this part was not used on the Top Force. Perhaps to save weight?

Next up a new Futaba 3003 servo attached with Yeah racing servo mounts. The wing mount & the last blue aluminium parts, wheel hexes & nuts.

Finally I finished the chassis with the wheels & the rest of the radio gear (No limit esc & 2.4Ghz rx)

I bid(several times) on 2 seperate nip Top force body shells but got sniped both times

So I gave up & got a ***** one, undertray & decals are Tamiya though.

I cut & test fit the body. Then off to mask & paint using ps17 metallic green & ps23 gun metal.

when fitting the undertray I noticed that even though I cut it along the lines it's a bit short at the front & the back. I also left the over spray film on for now with the thinking that I could peel it off after a few runs & have a nice clean undertray.

Instead of using the window decals I decided to mask out the windows & add a driver. After painting I noticed that because I painted the top of the wing it was not as glossy as the body, so I gave it a few coats of Tamiya clear.

While the wing was drying I thought I'd apply the decals to the body & paint the driver.

Also note in this photo ^ the missing washer on the wing mount. I did not notice this missing untill the wing had dried & had decals applied (after I'd cleaned up & moved the car around to a few spots)

When I noticed it missing I turned the place upside down trying to find it I found the press nut but not the washer, I think the carpet monster got it

Used another screw & washer for now, hope it turns up or I'll have to order another.

I test fitted the driver & drilled a hole in the top plate to mount him. Not the best paint job but deos the job.

And thats it all finished & ready to go. Only one thing left to do now, But it looks so good I don't want to get it dirty

Took it out in the backyard today for a couple of pics & a test run

couple of things I learned from the test run, I need to adjust the shock settings to my liking & the car is quite quick even with the superstock, but not quick enough

couple of questions too, I read in another thread that these tyres 53092 & 53093 are discontinued is this true? if so I'll get some different ones for running.

Also how fast a motor can I go with these ball diffs? or should put in bevel gear diffs & run the 5.5t?

Thanks for sticking around if you got this far, sorry if this post is a bit long.

Any questions, answers to my questions, comments or tips for running are welcome.

Muz.

[dragnse7en 9]

I wouldn't attempt to run a 5.5T motor with those existing ball diffs, or the stock gear diffs b/c of the design of the splines on the outdrives will strip out and fail.

You can rebuild two gear diffs and use the TT01's bevel gear set for both, and replace the outdrives with four TT01 gearbox joints that replace the outdrives. All the TT01 parts have a slotted fit instead of splines, and would be better able to handle a 5.5T motor.

I would also put the rear suspension uprights back the way they're supposed to be, and add spacers behind the rear dampers instead.

If you look up the part numbers for the tires on TamiyaUSA, and they say it's discontinued, then it's discontinued.

I'm keeping my TA02 rally car with the spline style diffs, b/c it's vintage and I'm only running a Tamiya brushless motor 01 18T/ esc setup in it (Tamiya# 45044). I'll be using urethane bushings inside the outdrives and axles to stop the splines from chattering and prevent premature wear. If they do wear out fast with that mod, I'll go w/ two gear diffs and the TT01 parts as described above.

Congratulations on the restore and rebuild! All in all, I really like it

Where did you get the FRP chassis?

Again - nice car - like the colors too

[TA-Mark 197]

The ball diffs work fine provided you loctite the outdrives into the diff. Leaving them loose or greased will shear off the splines when you fit big power. The splines on bevel gear diffs will last much longer than the ball diffs with them unbonded as the spline is much longer. I bond all my outdrives in now and haven't had one shear off since. I use MambaMax 4600Kv and 5700Kv brushless systems in mine.

This is how I mounted my rear top links:

[matman 1501]

Came out very nice . Well done . Now get it dirty & don't break anything .

Are you going to race it at bayswater track ?. It's not a bad track to race on .

Bunch of nobs that take it WAY to serious & screw it up for the rest etc ,

But not to bad another than that .

[merckx 1]

thats a really good build! great thread, i really enjoyed reading it. i can fully understand why you would be hesitant to run it, even though its a runner at the outset, it is shelfer quality!

[Thommo 1501]

+1 Great job and plenty of info. Well done mate, thats pretty impressive and I like the paint scheme and driver.

[Tamiya1/10 384]

This is good stuff. Watching someone else doing the building is good enough for me.

For FRP or carbon, I would run AA glue all along the edge to seal it and prevent it form delaminating should some contact occurred. It also gives it a finish look vs a "cut" look.

[KalEl63 709]

Nice build and yes those tires are discontinued I was hunting around for the rear ones for my Terra Scorcher wheel/tire upgrade and managed to find some but now not in plentiful supply

[Madmuz77 19]

Thanks for tips & comments guys, this is all great stuff.

Where did you get the FRP chassis?

All parts were bought on thE Bay, I got FRP chassis from tamiya_rc_car_spares

Are you going to race it at bayswater track ?. It's not a bad track to race on .

Bunch of nobs that take it WAY to serious & screw it up for the rest etc

I used to go there years ago & the one at Whiteman park, when I built my Traxxas Stampede. But as you said you always get that group that take it too serious.

I'm in it for the fun, so these days I'm just a builder/basher.

I havn't got time to tinker tonight so I'm making a list of things to do in no particular order, I will add/cross them off as I get them done

1. Play with the shock set up & turn the rear uprights & upper arms back around.DONE

2. Install more power, I'll put the 5.5t brushless in it but I'll probably dial the punch back a bit on it.(or just be light on the throttle stick)DONE

3. I will loctite the out drives to the ball diffs DONE & if they break or strip I will look into building diffs with Tt-01 parts as I already have them.

4. New tyres, one day this car will be retired to my shelf, so I would like to have the original tyres & parts put away for that day.ORDERED

4. Order new undertray, D parts trees, front bumper & D screw bag to replace the wing washer. Same reason as 4 so no rush on this. SCREW BAG D ORDERED ALONG WITH SOME NIP RIMS FOR MY ASTUTE.

5. Seal & maybe paint the edges of the FRP plates. DONE

that's all I can think of for now, anything else I should do?

much appreciated

Muz.

[EddScott 134]

That is such a cool build. Very tempted to do likewise.

If I were doing a similar build and being a sucker for a bit of carbon I'd go for Fibre Lyte carbon chassis, deck and towers. Have used Fibre Lyte for my Optima Mid project and it looks particularly handsome

[dragnse7en 9]

I have found a solution to the spline issue on this car, but it would require it to have two gear diffs.

1. Replace the large bevel gears in the gear diffs with Tamiya# 51008 TT-01 bevel gears.

2. Replace the spline gear box joints with Tamiya#19804237 M05 gear box joints.

The bevel gears from the TT-01 are the same as the ones in the TA02. These replacement parts have a slotted shaft fit instead of splines, and would have no problem handling a 5.5T BL motor.

Hope this info helps!

[Madmuz77 19]

If I were doing a similar build and being a sucker for a bit of carbon I'd go for Fibre Lyte carbon chassis, deck and towers.

I did look at the Fibre lyte stuff & was tempted, but I had already ordered the FRP chassis & decided to go more Top Force then Evo.

I have found a solution to the spline issue on this car, but it would require it to have two gear diffs.

1. Replace the large bevel gears in the gear diffs with Tamiya# 51008 TT-01 bevel gears.

2. Replace the spline gear box joints with Tamiya#19804237 M05 gear box joints.

The bevel gears from the TT-01 are the same as the ones in the TA02. These replacement parts have a slotted shaft fit instead of splines, and would have no problem handling a 5.5T BL motor.

Hope this info helps!

This will help alot if I have to rebuild the diffs, thanks I was wondering about what to replace the Tt-01 gearbox joints with if I built the diffs with those bevel gears.

[matman 1501]

Bang goes the gears with 5.5 .

Hope it goes all well .

I used to go to bayswater three years ago ish .

[Madmuz77 19]

Bang goes the gears with 5.5 .

Hope it goes all well .

I used to go to bayswater three years ago ish .

Oh well, at least Ta-02 gears should be in plentiful supply with th re-re, it's more the diffs I'm worried about.

When I was building my Stampede the guy at my LHS who was ordering parts for me convinced my to go to the track with him(Bayswater)

Only went a couple of times, it didn't take my long to realise that racing competitively wasn't my scene. would have been three or four years ago.

Pulled the 5.5 out of the boomer & checked the gears.

After maybe 5 or 6 good runs & at least that many of more backyard runs(laps of my back lawn with an empty dirt garden bed at one end)

No wear at all on the gears & Very little wear on the AV pinion I expected to at least melt the pinion.

Day off work to day, so I'm starting to go through my Top Force list as posted above.

car is currently in bits again & I'm getting ready to sand & seal the edges of the FRP plates.

[Tamiya Era 778]

Oh well, at least Ta-02 gears should be in plentiful supply with th re-re, it's more the diffs I'm worried about.

When I was building my Stampede the guy at my LHS who was ordering parts for me convinced my to go to the track with him(Bayswater)

Only went a couple of times, it didn't take my long to realise that racing competitively wasn't my scene. would have been three or four years ago.

Pulled the 5.5 out of the boomer & checked the gears.

After maybe 5 or 6 good runs & at least that many of more backyard runs(laps of my back lawn with an empty dirt garden bed at one end)

No wear at all on the gears & Very little wear on the AV pinion I expected to at least melt the pinion.

Day off work to day, so I'm starting to go through my Top Force list as posted above.

car is currently in bits again & I'm getting ready to sand & seal the edges of the FRP plates.

i get sooooo excited when i see ( Hop-Up Options ) cooooool man

[dragnse7en 9]

I did a little homework, and it seems that the two washers that go onto the large TT-01/ M05 bevel gears are not included. You'll need two 9x15x0.3mm washers so that all the bevel gears mesh properly. TamiyaUSA has them in stock @ $0.45, but I don't know if if it's for just one or if it's for a pair. Anyways, it's Tamiya #2300010 RC 9mm Washer.

[MAD RACER 570]

The RC Damper rear hubs are incorrect for off road, Trust me iv'e had a long debate with them after i purchased a set. They are re packed Yeah Racing versions of the touring car ( On Road)

They have no rear toe in and were made for the touring car which has no toe .

Th standard rear hubs of the Ray/ Top Force has around 2d toe in. Compare them closely and you will see the plastic ones point in. ( toe in = More Grip)

What will this mean??? NO rear grip on loose surface. A real handful to drive.

I"m not sure what TA Mark has on his but i am pretty sure they are GPM ones which could be correct in toe.

Nice build up.

I have built 2 Top Force's from parts now. Turned out cheaper too.

[Madmuz77 19]

@ MAD RACER, I hadn't noticed the toe in on the original rear uprights, but as this car is not a racer I don't mind if the rear end has little grip, adds more fun to the drive

If it becomes a problem I have the original parts still new on the tree(I was planning to use them on my Manta Ray rebuild) & can use them.

Progress report from the last couple of days:-

Sanded with 1200grit wet & dry & coloured the edges of the FRP plates with a black permanent marker, but when I went to seal them I found my tube of CA had completely dried rock hard, that teach me for not putting the lid back on properly. trip to my LHS is needed for some more.

In the mean time while I had the car apart I pulled out the diffs & loctited the outdrive joints in.

Front---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rear--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Took a trip to my LHS for some more CA then finished sealing the chassis plates

Before-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------After--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also set the shocks up to give me a little more ground clearance & gave them some pre-load. Not to keen on these screw up pre-load spacers, might add some clip on ones later on down the track.

I turned the rear uprights & upper arms back around & added a spacer to the rear shocks. But they were now leaning backwards, so I removed the spacer & opted for TA-MARK's solution.

Also added the 5.5t brushless system.

I've ordered some new tread (square spikes) but I don't mind using these ones till they arrive.

& I'm now ready to go again just waiting on a sunny day to try it out properly, forcast rain for the next few days though

[matman 1501]

Looks great , Yes the rain has turned up today for me . Good that it has

As i have been working on my RC track , So now the water will set it .

Saves me taking water over there . Will be good to run my boomerang , hotshot ,

FAV , Mud blaster . Even that i need to get boomerang parts as i have broke the

Battery cover & cracked the chassis .

The Boomerang with 5.5, I melted the 4wd rear gear ( the prop ) .

[dragnse7en 9]

The RC Damper rear hubs are incorrect for off road, Trust me iv'e had a long debate with them after i purchased a set. They are re packed Yeah Racing versions of the touring car ( On Road)

They have no rear toe in and were made for the touring car which has no toe .

Th standard rear hubs of the Ray/ Top Force has around 2d toe in. Compare them closely and you will see the plastic ones point in. ( toe in = More Grip)

What will this mean??? NO rear grip on loose surface. A real handful to drive.

I"m not sure what TA Mark has on his but i am pretty sure they are GPM ones which could be correct in toe.

Nice build up.

I have built 2 Top Force's from parts now. Turned out cheaper too.

It's a hobby - relax or else you will blow an O-ring!!!!! lol Give the guy kudos, not trump!

lol

[dragnse7en 9]

@ MAD RACER, I hadn't noticed the toe in on the original rear uprights, but as this car is not a racer I don't mind if the rear end has little grip, adds more fun to the drive

If it becomes a problem I have the original parts still new on the tree(I was planning to use them on my Manta Ray rebuild) & can use them.

Progress report from the last couple of days:-

Sanded with 1200grit wet & dry & coloured the edges of the FRP plates with a black permanent marker, but when I went to seal them I found my tube of CA had completely dried rock hard, that teach me for not putting the lid back on properly. trip to my LHS is needed for some more.

In the mean time while I had the car apart I pulled out the diffs & loctited the outdrive joints in.

Front---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rear--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Took a trip to my LHS for some more CA then finished sealing the chassis plates

Before-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------After--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also set the shocks up to give me a little more ground clearance & gave them some pre-load. Not to keen on these screw up pre-load spacers, might add some clip on ones later on down the track.

I turned the rear uprights & upper arms back around & added a spacer to the rear shocks. But they were now leaning backwards, so I removed the spacer & opted for TA-MARK's solution.

Also added the 5.5t brushless system.

I've ordered some new tread (square spikes) but I don't mind using these ones till they arrive.

& I'm now ready to go again just waiting on a sunny day to try it out properly, forcast rain for the next few days though

I thought about spacers from the start, but the switch you made in the new photos are super sweet. The most important thing I wanted you to do was to somehow switch the upper links back to where they were, and - good job sir!!! Nicely done

Did you say 5.5 BL now!?!?!?!? OOOOOhhhhh yeah, It'll take it, regardless of the above mentioned comments . . . . . DO IT!!!!!

[Madmuz77 19]

I thought about spacers from the start, but the switch you made in the new photos are super sweet. The most important thing I wanted you to do was to somehow switch the upper links back to where they were, and - good job sir!!! Nicely done

Did you say 5.5 BL now!?!?!?!? OOOOOhhhhh yeah, It'll take it, regardless of the above mentioned comments . . . . . DO IT!!!!!

I originally bought the 5.5 for this car but I had my doubts on the diffs handling the power, which is why I asked for advise on here before fitting it.

After using it in my Boomer the superstock in My TF was just too slow for my liking

Also after your great Idea about using TT01 bevels & M05 outdrives I'm not so worried about these diffs failing now

Tested the car up & down my driveway & now it really flies. Still waiting for a dry day to take it down to my bash spot though.

[johndavid 0]

Well it all started about 4 or 5 months ago, I bought a used Df-01 chassis of thE Bay with the idea of building a Manta Ray runner. It arrived all broken as they do, so I started ordering parts & researching Df-01 upgrades.

I found That the Top Force was top of the Df-01 series apart from the TF Evo & since I wanted a runner not a racer or a shelfer the Evo parts were out of my price range. Not to mention near impossible too find

I decided with a few more parts I could build a Top Force & still fix up the Manta Ray, so the hunt for Top Force parts began.

A few hop up parts led to more impulse buying & I ended up buying every upgrade part I could find

I'm unsure how many parts are original Top Force (I'm sure some are) or Manta Ray or re-re TopForce/MantaRay but as this is to be a runner I wasn't really worried. So I started out with this lot.

Right now on to the build. Started with the ball diffs as the manual states. First thing I notice is that the plastic gear in the Manta Ray ball diff sets is different colour to the Ta-02 gear set.

Unsure if they were just moulded in a different colour or if they changed colour with age, I built 1 using each, I put the Ta-02 one in the rear gearbox with the rest of the plastic gears (no aluminium gear on on the spur)

Originaly I bought a 5.5t brushless for this but I have my doubts on the ball diffs handling that sort of power. What's everyone run in theirs?

I found a SuperstockTZ in my parts box & put that in it for now. Adding a Robinson racing 16t steel pinion, Yeah racing rear gearbox cover & motor mount, Boca bearings(used thoughout) also a prop shaft from Rc damper.

I built the front & rear assemblies following the manual but using Top Force/Thundershot universal shafts all round, Db-01 ball end connectors, C hubs, front & rear knuckles from Rc damper

Then it came to shocks, I bought a set of (short)Hi-caps from you know where. These were the only used parts I used in the build, but they came with the hop up square springs. I stripped them down, checked all the seals, rebuilt & refilled them with Tamiya soft damper oil.

When it came to fitting the rears I found that they were binding on the upper arms. So I reversed the rear knuckles & upper arms this worked fine & left plenty of room for the shocks.

Shocks fitted, build going well so far. Right onto the chassis then.

At this stage I remembered that I had not put the Touque splitter in the front gearbox, so I built it, took off the front gearbox cover & put it in.

Now onto the chassis, built as per manual. I bought a Yeah racing Ta-01 steering set & played around with it a bit but could not get it to fit right, so I decided to go with the stock steeering setup. The rear gearbox was then attached to the chassis.

And the front was attached along with the front bumper. I also attached a Manta Ray rear bumper, I don't know why this part was not used on the Top Force. Perhaps to save weight?

Next up a new Futaba 3003 servo attached with Yeah racing servo mounts. The wing mount & the last blue aluminium parts, wheel hexes & nuts.

Finally I finished the chassis with the wheels & the rest of the radio gear (No limit esc & 2.4Ghz rx)

I bid(several times) on 2 seperate nip Top force body shells but got sniped both times

So I gave up & got a ***** one, undertray & decals are Tamiya though.

I cut & test fit the body. Then off to mask & paint using ps17 metallic green & ps23 gun metal.

when fitting the undertray I noticed that even though I cut it along the lines it's a bit short at the front & the back. I also left the over spray film on for now with the thinking that I could peel it off after a few runs & have a nice clean undertray.

Instead of using the window decals I decided to mask out the windows & add a driver. After painting I noticed that because I painted the top of the wing it was not as glossy as the body, so I gave it a few coats of Tamiya clear.

While the wing was drying I thought I'd apply the decals to the body & paint the driver.

Also note in this photo ^ the missing washer on the wing mount. I did not notice this missing untill the wing had dried & had decals applied (after I'd cleaned up & moved the car around to a few spots)

When I noticed it missing I turned the place upside down trying to find it I found the press nut but not the washer, I think the carpet monster got it

Used another screw & washer for now, hope it turns up or I'll have to order another.

I test fitted the driver & drilled a hole in the top plate to mount him. Not the best paint job but deos the job.

And thats it all finished & ready to go. Only one thing left to do now, But it looks so good I don't want to get it dirty

Took it out in the backyard today for a couple of pics & a test run

couple of things I learned from the test run, I need to adjust the shock settings to my liking & the car is quite quick even with the superstock, but not quick enough

couple of questions too, I read in another thread that these tyres 53092 & 53093 are discontinued is this true? if so I'll get some different ones for running.

Also how fast a motor can I go with these ball diffs? or should put in bevel gear diffs & run the 5.5t?

Thanks for sticking around if you got this far, sorry if this post is a bit long.

Any questions, answers to my questions, comments or tips for running are welcome.

Muz.

WOW!!! what a nice ride you have there

I wish I have one too

[tamiyafier 4]

What an amazing build! Hope you have fun with it

Amazing that lurking under all that aluminium are the same gearboxes lurking in my scruffy TA02.

[Madmuz77 19]

Thanks guys

WOW!!! what a nice ride you have there

I wish I have one too

Never too late to start collecting parts

What an amazing build! Hope you have fun with it

Amazing that lurking under all that aluminium are the same gearboxes lurking in my scruffy TA02.

Having lots of fun with it now posted some action shots in my showroom click here to see them

Most of the aluminium parts on this are for a TA01 so apart from the prop shaft they would fit right on your TA02.